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6. Comparative Mythology

 

August 20, 2024

 

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Comparative Mythology

Mythology encompasses any story or piece of lore related to a religion (including commonly practiced ones of modern day). In this episode, we explain that definition a bit further, and dive into comparing and contrasting some myths that have some really interesting similarities — as well as discussing the importance of comparing and defining myths from various religions.

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Transcript

Claire: Hello friends and welcome back to Anthro.mp3. We’re students from UMass who love anthropology and Anthrohub is a website that we helped to run that is full of all things anthro. Make sure to check it out to look at some incredible blog posts and creative works made by students from our school and others.

Claire: My name is Claire and I’ll be one of your hosts for today’s episode and I am joined by a brand new host, Lily.

Lily:  Hi, my name’s Lily. I’m a senior at UMass Amherst and it’s my first time here, so I’m excited.

Claire: I’m excited to have you! This is, ah, this is so thrilling. Today we’re going to talk a bit about the field of comparative mythology.

Um, so, that might be a term that you haven’t heard before. What exactly is it? So it’s the comparison of legends from different cultures. Uh, comparative mythologists identify and research similarities and differences between myths from different cultures. And it is a little bit of a controversial topic because the analysis of findings tend to discredit cultural groups.

Some comparative mythologists attribute similarities to copy culture, where it’ll be, ‘Oh, well, this one culture stole from this other one’ and that discredits, you know, the background and the origins of a lot of cultures, which is super harmful. And we need to sort of work to end these harmful practices with current comparative mythologists and future comparative mythologists. Um, and I think that there’s definitely a good start on that already. So, what are some common myth, myths that we may know. How do we know them?

Lily: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it’s interesting because mythology, we talked about this, the first thing we think of is like Percy Jackson.  

Claire:  Yeah, definitely.  

Lily: Were you a Percy Jackson fan?

Claire:  Oh, I was definitely a Percy Jackson kid.

Lily: Yeah. And like, I think these myths, like, also talking about like the Odyssey, like I read that in high school. Um, there’s also, well, also like Greek mythology, Roman mythology, that seems to be like the most popular and people think about like Zeus, Poseidon. But it’s interesting because I want to talk about the term myth. Like the way we use the term myth today and a lot of people will be like, ‘Oh, Top 10 myths you didn’t know’ and it’ll be like, an example is like, Oh, if you go outside in the cold and your hair is wet, you’ll get sick and people see that as a connotation of like, okay, well, it’s a myth, so it’s untrue. And that can be kind of harmful because the original term of myth is it’s not always meant to be untrue.

Claire: Exactly. Yeah. So that’s a really good point. What exactly constitutes a myth? Because the definition has definitely changed over recent years. So how do we officially define and differentiate mythology, especially versus religion is a big topic.

So religion itself is the practice of belief, the formal systems of belief themselves, and that can be organized religion or unorganized, just the system of belief, and mythology refers to the stories associated with religions. So like you said, a really common misconception, especially with the way that we use the term myth today, is that myths are always outdated or they’re innately false.

So, for example, the Bible and the Iliad. These are two books that share myths of separate religions. Both are valid and scholarly, and they’re technically collections of myths, because they’re the stories that have to do with the religions. But they’re typically seen as incredibly different because the Bible is for Christianity, which is still very practiced today, and you know, Greek religion is a little less practiced today.

Lily: Yeah, and I think what’s really interesting about the Bible is, so I grew up Christian, so I’ve heard a lot about the Bible, and going to church, you hear a lot of different perspectives. People think of myths as either like fact or fiction, but there’s a huge spectrum on what people really believe about these stories.

In Christianity, some people see some stories from the Bible as like fact, and that’s their religious interpretation. And some people see it as a metaphor. As like, Oh, these are stories that we’re supposed to interpret as metaphors between the relationship of God and humans. And I wanted to talk about the story of Adam and Eve, because I found this really interesting.

Um, recently, I didn’t know that, Adam and Eve is actually a story that is told in different religions, like Islam. And I think it’s really interesting because basically the, the main story is similar among both religions. It is that God creates the two first humans, and Adam, and then Eve is also created. And they’re both created in the image of God, and they were told to multiply, and they were given power to rule over all living things. And in the Christian version, Eve is created from the rib of Adam. And Adam was formed from the earth’s dust and given the breath of life. And in the garden of Eden, Adam is told to not eat the fruit and kind of like the forbidden fruit.

And then the original sin, and this is what is really interesting is in the Christian version, Adam eats the fruit or Eve eats a fruit and they both are punished by God as this original sin. And this is seen as a big part of Christianity as you were all born with this original sin that we have to replenish ourselves.

And what’s interesting is a similar story is used in Islam, but it’s slightly different. Like certain details are like Adam was created out of clay and he was given the plethora of knowledge and he did sin, but it was not the original sin. And Allah offers Adam internal guidance for following him, and I think that’s really interesting because they see Adam as sinful, but they don’t see it as the whole human race is sinful.

So I think looking at a story like this, which in the terms of mythology is a myth, but it’s also very valid in these religions. And like, how are they similar? How are they different? How does this talk about how different cultures interpret stories differently and how we can use it as a way to better understand different religions?

Claire: Definitely. I think that’s a really, really interesting point. And it’s sort of, you know, it’s really important to recognize that mythology and stories of religions aren’t necessarily just fiction. You know, especially when we look back at Percy Jackson. People see Percy Jackson and they go, Oh, it’s, it’s a myth, it wouldn’t ever happen. 

But what’s really interesting is like you said, we’ve got, you know, the story of Adam and Eve, which is in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, all that. And that’s very modern, but we also have, you know, Celtic paganism, which is more outdated. Uh, if we look at untranslated localized Greek, so if you think of the Linear A script, which is yet fully untranslated, that may have stories that we’re not sure of, but then we can also look at, uh, Hinduism and the stories that align with that and all of these connected legends count as the mythology of the religions, even though some are certainly more well known and or more practiced now than others.

Lily: Yeah. And one more thing I’d love to add about the idea of mythology and Christianity. Um, actually in early Christianity they tried to like denounce myths and legends because they were like, they wanted to focus on philosophy, history, and law. And I think that’s interesting because there is that connotation that myths automatically devalue the truth, but myths are, they are seen as truth, and that’s really cool.

Claire: Yeah. It’s, that’s, that’s where it sort of, there’s this harmful connotation, like you said, of, ‘Oh, myths are false. myths are fiction.’ and that’s not necessarily true. Like, myths can be true. Um, just to move on a little bit, do you have a favorite myth?

Lily: Yeah, so, I’ve always known about, like, Greek mythology, and I think that’s the most popular. And I watched Percy Jackson like over a decade ago, so I don’t really remember it. But what always sticks with me is the Medusa scene, and I’ve always found Medusa to be such a cool, mythical person. And just like her story is so interesting how she was so hideous that she would turn people to stone when she would look at them. And I remember watching it in the movie and I was like, wow, this is so fascinating. And it does have this like kind of like almost magic element to it, which is so fascinating. And I don’t know as much about myths as you do. So I’m sure you probably have like a really cool favorite myth if you want to share that.

Claire: I mean, you definitely do know a lot about myths. You’ve, you’ve shared a lot of really interesting stories already. Um, I have a couple of favorites and one of them I will talk about a little bit more later. It’s Maori from a New Zealand culture. Uh, it’s about the creation of the North Island. And again, I’ll go into that later. But, I have always loved the story of Persephone and Hades because it’s told so differently throughout pop culture where some are sort of, Persephone and Hades are deeply in love and it’s a love story, and then there are other ones where Persephone resents Hades, and it’s just so interesting to me to see how different people interpret this story again, isn’t super practiced currently. And it makes me think about how people interpreted it back when it was a very common story that was, you know, passed around a lot and seen as the reason for various happenings, you know, the coming of spring, that sort of thing.

Lily: Yeah. I love that. It’s really cool to see like the timeline of myths and how they evolve.

Claire: Yeah. 

Lily: Yeah. And how people see them. And it’s curious to see, like, how are people going to see the stories that we believe now in the future? Like, how are they going to tell time, you know?

Claire: Definitely. I wish I could see, you know. Hundreds of years, thousands of years into the future.

Lily: And what stays along?

 Claire: Yes, exactly. It would be so interesting. Um, so I, I mentioned briefly, uh, a Maori myth and that’s one of two really interesting legends that can exemplify comparative mythology pretty well. There’s the Greek tale of Leto and Zeus and the Maori myth of the creation of the North Island to Ika a Maui. So, for context, Greek myth is definitely a little more well known, definitely because of pop culture, you know, Percy Jackson, but, uh, the Greeks are the polytheistic peoples of Greece, particularly ancient Greece, that’s when most of these stories were at the height of their practice, and the Maori are native polytheistic peoples of New Zealand.

So, to start off with the Leto and Zeus story, Zeus, who was the king of the Greek gods, was married to Hera, so the queen, um, and he was a little bit of a playboy. He definitely had a few affairs, um, which definitely did not sit well with Hera as she was, you know, the goddess of marriage. She was the goddess of that marital connection, and being a wife, and being a mother. Um, so, Zeus impregnated a daughter of the Titans, Leto, who then needed to give birth to her two divine children by Zeus. But Hera was infuriated by Zeus’ infidelity and betrayal, and cursed Leto so that she would be unable to find land, find solid land, anywhere on the Earth, anywhere on the world, to give birth upon.

So Zeus saw Leto in labor and in pain and raised an island, Delos, from the Aegean Sea. Uh, and this sort of has, you know, a loophole. So Delos was of the water, having been pulled from its depths and supposedly floating without connection to the earth itself. So, therefore, it was not solid land. So, there, Leto was able to give birth to two major Olympians, Artemis and Apollo, who are, again, very well known. They’re two of the main, main twelve who sit upon the thrones of Mount Olympus. Uh, and Delos was a major religious center in the Cyclades Island region, a huge social hub of ancient Greece. And today, interestingly enough, it houses no people. The entire island is an archaeological site that gives us interesting information on the lives of ancient Greeks, how they interacted with each other throughout the millenniums, and how religion, you know, affected their lifestyle, the evolution of their culture, and their daily practices.

Um, and then something else that’s just an interesting side note is that one of the ways that this story went throughout Greece was because Delos as such a huge religious center with these, these large temples and everything, uh, was also a very large trade center. Um, so that’s sort of an interesting connection with how material trade also results in cultural trade, which is something that could definitely,

Lily: I love that. We were talking about the Silk Road. 

Claire: Yeah. 

Lily: The idea of like, physical trade also leads to like this trade of stories and like oral traditions. And then it’s cool to see like how these stories from like this island might like travel and then influence other stories. That’s awesome.

Claire:  Definitely. And I think that’s definitely something that we could talk about for hours for sure.

Lily: Definitely.

Claire: We could probably do a whole nother episode just on just what, what trade did in the ancient world and even today. Yeah. Yeah. Um, But then there’s also the Taika a Maui story, which is a Kiwi tale, which is one reason why it popped into my head when I was researching because I am a dual citizen of New Zealand because of my father.

Um, but even if you’re not a dual citizen, even if you don’t have that, you know, immediate connection to something, researching other cultures is super interesting and a huge first step to becoming an anthropologist. So, For example, I was led into anthropology via Greek and Egyptian mythology mostly, because those are two that I was really interested in as a kid, especially after reading Percy Jackson, I sort of fell down the rabbit hole of researching other tales and reading just these huge anthologies of these different mythologies.

So it’s just, it’s something that’s super interesting and you can definitely find your niche. Um,

Lily: Yeah, I actually think that’s really cool seeing like how people find interest in anthropology. 

Claire: Yeah

Lily: because like for me, like cultural heritage is so interesting. Like how different cultures are and how cultures have come to be.

Lily: And I think mythology is so connected to cultural anthropology, which is the field that I’m like most passionate about. So I think that’s really cool that they’re all like interconnected.

Claire: Yeah. And it’s, it’s so, it’s so gorgeous to sort of watch this evolution of human culture and how different cultures intertwine over time.

Um, so yeah, if we look back at Te Ika Maui, uh, New Zealand is a country that is split into two regions, the South Island and the North Island, and this is the creation story of the latter. So this centers around a demigod, uh, Maui Tikitiki Atauranga, and he did not get invited on a fishing trip by his brothers, which was so messed up, and he was, you know, very upset about this.

Um. So, he ended up hiding in the front of his brother’s canoe. And once they were far enough out into sea that turning back wasn’t an option, he revealed himself. And his brothers were annoyed, but let him join the fishing trip at that point. And Maui ended up catching his largest fish ever. Um, which, sheer spite for family, does incredible things.

Um, And this fish was the North Island where the Maori people come from, and the vast majority of them reside there still today. Um, and what’s interesting, there are some really important similarities and implications between the story of the North Island and the story of Delos. Um, in both, a divine figure raises an island from the sea, albeit for different reasons, uh, creating and changing the world as people knew and know it. So these are origin stories for land that is important to the culture sharing these myths. So Delos, a huge religious hub where there was a lot of interaction, especially along the western string between, you know, mainland Greece, uh, the Cyclades Islands, Crete, uh, even Egypt and some other regions. And then again, the Maori people originated from the North Island that was their home. So these are again, two very important lands. Um, and these divine figures mentioned, uh, Zeus and Maui, they have a lot of other stories associated with their names as well. So for example, both are associated with tales of bringing fire to humanity, although Zeus was definitely much less benevolent in his tale.

Claire: So while Maui was the one to bring fire to man, um, Zeus actually tried to stop man from attaining it and punished Prometheus, a titan, who managed to bring fire to man. Um, and there are other myths of fire being brought to humanity. So, for example, the Hindu god Agni, who’s sort of, uh, represented through some bird like features, and he’s the god of fire, and It’s just fire was so life altering for early humans that multiple different cultures created legends of divine or semi divine beings bringing it to them.

Or it was the same figure just known by different names under different cultures. So comparative mythology brings up really interesting questions about the origins of folklore. So if we assume that everything is based in truth, which cannot yet be scientifically proven or disproven. What if the overlapping stories are from the same figure or related figures, and/or how did the stories grow to be so similar if they aren’t backed in fact? Uh, and it brings to question the similarity of man’s parallel evolution culturally, especially while being separated by immense distance. And these questions are definitely what leads to the controversy of the topic. So when people wonder how and why certain myths are so similar, there tends to be an assumption that similarities come from one original legend that was taken and edited by different cultures. And this is, you know, definitely an incredibly harmful assumption as it has no scientific basis, and it discredits the folklore and founding tales of many cultures around the world, which creates a hierarchy of what professionals consider to be the most true or quote unquote original.

Lily: Yeah, I just think that’s so interesting that you talk about like comparing different myths because that’s kind of what I wanted to connect to with Adam and Eve because you talked about the fire and how both myths were bringing fire.

But with Adam and Eve, they both were talking about the creation of humanity, but they both were slightly different based on their own cultural context. Right. And it’s cool when you think about like each different. religion and different culture and different folklore, all of it is equally valid. And I think sometimes in modern culture, because of certain pop culture and things that are more well known, people see that as like, Oh, well, this is, this is more fact or this is more of a myth than this. And I think that’s really cool. And that’s a great segue into talking about even more cultures, because there’s a lot of cultures that are not as well known, especially in myth mythology. And I wanted to talk about actually how cultural anthropology can be connected to mythology because myths are actually used in research sometimes because in anthropological research, um, We use field notes and archives and interviews and all these things to gather information about people and like social phenomenons.

But what’s interesting is, so I know a lot about Korea and like Korean culture because I studied abroad there. I’ve studied the language for two years, so I know a lot of the cultural nuances. And what’s interesting about it is There’s this study that was actually done on birth rates in Korea, but they used myths to research it.

Claire: Oh!

Lily: Yeah, which was really cool because people think of myths as like, Oh, it’s, it, it might be fiction, but these are really serious things that are connected to someone’s culture and their identity and why people are the way they are. And it was interesting because, so this study was talking about birth, the birth, um, the birth rate crisis, because in Korea, they have the lowest birth rate or one of the lowest birth rates, and that’s been an issue for the economy and the society. They’re trying to figure out why people are not having kids. And it’s interesting because Korean culture and Confucian values, they do value family a lot. So it’s interesting to see why that is happening. And this specific research study, they were trying to figure out why parents had anxiety over children and why they were anxious about being parents, so they looked at these oral traditions passed down through literature, and they looked about 12 of them, and they wanted to look at the stories and the messages and the themes about childbearing to see how they could help modern parents, and it was really interesting because they had four main findings, and the first one was that in these stories, parents were very affectionate and showered their children with endless amounts of love, and in multiple stories, they had examples of that. And then the second finding was that children were independent and they should lead themselves and their parents should not lead their own children, but let children kind of have their own initiative towards life. And then the third one was that no one could avoid the destiny of becoming a parent, even if you were anxious.

So in every mythical story, parents would try to avoid the fear of having children, but they always followed through with their destiny. And then the last one was naming your child as a gift to them. And these four findings are really interesting because they reflect Korean traditions and what Korean culture came from through these stories. So then it was used to help modern parents be like, Oh, well, these are the traditions. These are some values and some messages that you can follow. And it thinks about like the term like allegory, like how an allegory is like a story based on morals and ethics. And myths are kind of used as allegories to help different people and cultures share ideas over time and to help spread like cultural, like beliefs.

Claire: Definitely. And that’s, it’s so interesting being able to see this connection between the cultural heritage and these myths and what people believe and seeing it used in something that, uh, people usually determine to be a more quote unquote, like scientific, uh, sort of context. And I think that’s really helping to. Sort of give cultural heritage and these myths and these religions sort of more, more umph.

Lily:Yeah 

Claire:Yeah

Lily: No, exactly. And these myths are you, they can be used as research to help contemporary societal phenomenons. And that’s the thing, like we’re connected so much to our past. I think sometimes looking at the past and seeing what humans have done through evolution in the stories, they’re so much more meaningful than sometimes people like to. 

Claire: Definitely. And it’s just, it’s so, so interesting to be able to see that. Um, and I think that’s definitely something really important to keep in mind and continue looking at, continue researching as we go forward with the field of comparative mythology. Um, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about today, or?

Lily: Yeah, um, I know we don’t have much time, but I wanted to just dive into Native American mythology, because I think that it’s, it’s such a beautiful, like, collection of mythological stories. Definitely. And, It was interesting because Native Americans, they’re known for oral passing down of tradition, especially because they didn’t use writing as a way of recording history, especially before colonization.

So they used oral tellings to pass down these stories. And it’s interesting because there’s a huge emphasis on the power of language and how speaking and telling your children’s is important to their culture and their identity. And even though there’s a huge diversity in beliefs and creation stories among the huge diversity of tribes, um, there are some common themes about how spiritual forces are deeply connected to the natural world and how like gods, heroes, ancestors, they gave the earth its form. And I think that’s interesting to look at these myths because these myths, they’re not as well known as maybe Greek mythology, but it’s the same exact kind of like structure and these myths, um, some of them are to be told alongside sacred rituals and some are only to be told in certain time periods, like winter nights and there’s so much more meaning behind myths that is so interesting that you can understand a culture of people and their history and their evolution. And one thing I really want to kind of drive home is that, like, myths are extremely important to a cultural identity, to a group’s identity, and, like, their myths and the stories behind them, and, like, Greek mythology or Korean mythology or Native American mythology or, like, New Zealand mythology, they all are so meaningful to that group’s heritage and where they come from and why they believe what they believe.

Claire: Yeah, and I think that’s just. That’s a really, really great point to bring up and to eventually end off on, um, is mythology and these stories of religion are so important to the cultural growth and interaction of different societies throughout time and space. And it’s something that unfortunately a lot of people discredit or just don’t look at in a positive light and it’s, it’s heartbreaking because they’re so, so important to learning about culture and like you said, uh, Native Americans, especially there’s a lot of connection to the natural world and mother earth and that sort of, that sort of thing. And, um, yeah. That’s definitely reflected in other ones, too.

Like, again, if we look at, uh, bringing up Delos or the North Island, those are very important spots for religious purposes or founding purposes. And, again, that’s just something that’s super, super essential to cultural groups and that we should definitely put more emphasis on and look more into the facts behind them.

Um, yeah, and I think that’s just so interesting and I love talking about this and learning more. 

Lily: Yeah,no, it’s been, it’s been so fun talking about this and I love how everything can always come back to anthropology because the study of humans, it’s like myths, stories, everything can always be brought back to anthropology and it’s kind of cool. Everything’s like a web and it all connects like one thing to the next.

Claire: Definitely. I love studying humans. I love studying their interaction and their past and just everything about them. And I think that a web is a really, really good way to explain anthropology as a field because everything just comes back together. And it’s, that’s one of the reasons why I love it so much.

Claire: But, uh, that’s going to be all the time that we have for today. So, thank you all for tuning into our show. Another thanks to our team members and our collaborators at AnthroHub, especially our beloved tech crew. To stay connected, you can find us on Instagram at anthro.mp3. And you can also find our sources, transcripts of each episode, and more in our AnthroHub show notes. I was one of your hosts today, Claire, joined by our other brand new host, Lily, who you will be seeing again, and our tech crew. If you enjoyed this episode, you’ll love our next one, the evolution and culture of substance use. Keep an eye out on our Instagram for future updates on shows, specials, and different events. Catch us next time and have a great day, friends! 

Lily: Thanks! Have a good one!

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