podcast

16. Music and Culture

 

May 15, 2025

 

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Music and Culture

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Em and Tim discuss all things music and culture! They dive into the history of music all the way from the first instrument to musical icons today. Some cool topics include bipedalism, generational music bonding, and the creation of instruments.

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Transcript:

Tim: Hello friends, and welcome back to anthro.mp3! We’re students from UMass who love anthropology. AnthroHub is a website we help run that’s full of “all things anthro”. Make sure to check it out to look at some incredible blog posts and creative works made by students from our school and others. My name is Tim, and I’ll be one of your hosts for today’s episode

Em: And My name is Emily, I’ll be your other host for today.

Tim: Wow! Music,  lofty topic today huh? 

Em: Yeah, it’s pretty exciting, we’ve got a lot of ground to cover!

Tim: So we decided to split up our research a little bit today, I focused a bit more on music in antiquity and prehistory, and Emily researched music and its cultural significance in the modern day; we thought it would be a good way to group out the material a little bit. I really can’t wait to discuss what we’ve each learned about!

Em: So Tim, I was wondering… well,  I suppose to start this whole thing off, how did music start? Is there like, a point, or some definitive source of music as we know it into the modern day?

Tim: That’s a really great question! Well, nobody knows exactly how music started, but most academics seem to agree that that first instance of human production of musicality was probably the human voice. I think too, it’s important to consider that music has a lot of varied interpretations, as-is of,  what is and what isn’t, you know. What may be “technically” musical could in-fact be gibberish, and vice-versa. Archaeologist Stephen Mithen offers a definition that encapsulates this, that being: “I know it when I hear it.”

Em: Ha, that’s pretty good, but I wonder, what does that have to do with music as a human development?

Tim: Haha, another really good question. So, Mithen continues to posit in a 2009 article of his, called “The Music Instinct”, that this aptitude for musical interest is a intherefore a human universal, that we are born with some sort of predetermination to appreciate music as a survival mechanism. Music is some sort of community builder in our brain, a way of expressing ourselves into the world and relating with others. He says, “There are no known societies, and as far as historians and archaeologists can tell, there never have been any societies that did not have cultural practices that we would not categorize as music. Very few individuals will express a complete un-interest in music; even fewer will express a formal dislike.” He goes on to ask the reader this, and I’ll actually go on to ask you the same … Isn’t that kinda weird? This is really strange?

Em: Wow, that’s really fascinating… it’s actually kinda bizarre to have a complete dislike for music, but, are there any theories about why music might be such a human universal? What about Neanderthals? Or our other evolutionary relatives?

Tim: So, actually it’s back to Stephen Mithen for that, he posits that our bipedalism is a possible reason for our species’ musicality… which, woah.

Em: Can you tell me more about that?

Tim: I know I know. Let me tell you, when I was doing the research and I saw that, my jaw DROPPED and I was with my girlfriend and I was like ‘Michelle, Michelle’ and I was so excited. So he’s saying that because of our bipedalism, we developed this greater freedom and control over our breath, this greater capacity of breath, as it were. And this capacity of breath control allowed for us to start using our lungs in more overtly musical utterances. Rather than these short bursts of notes, we were now able to belt out these melodies or tunes and string them together to create vocal music. He says, too, that because we’re upright, now we have free hands. We can do stuff with them. So we were therein allowed to use our hands for musical purposes, maybe percussively or with other instruments.

Em: That is seriously so cool.

Tim: Right? I thought that was awesome. But it seems that this universal musicality, as we’re right, is something that could theoretically run in our genome. In fact, the earliest instance of a musical instrument we found is from Cercno, Slovenia, called the Neanderthal Flute. It’s dated to about 60,000 years old. 

Emily: Wow. 

Tim: Wow. 

Emily: That’s crazy. That predates any human instruments we know of by about 20,000 years. The flute’s just over 11 centimeters long. It’s made out of cave bear bone. According to the National Museum of Slovenia, it’s made from the left thighbone of this young cave bear, and has four pierced holes in it, to change that, which tune. And musical experiments confirm findings of archeological research that the size and positions of the holds could not have been accidental. They were clearly made with this intention for musical expression.”

Em: That is so cool.

Tim: Right? But yeah, the only instance of musical instruments that we have outside of humans is the Neanderthal. Sometimes people will make arguments for chimps or bonobos, but these are usually without very much backing, usually anecdotal.

Em: That’s so interesting. So you said the flute was made out of cave bear? Is that pretty common? What materials are these artifacts usually made from?

Tim: So I found this really cool thesis from Boğuz Yılmaz that was actually all about this, which was great for research. So, usually there’s five types of musical instruments that archeologists will uncover. He says they’re usually flutes or pipes. Perforated finger bones called phalanx whistles. Bull roars, which would be like a piece of wood or bone, usually, with a flat hole at the end that makes a humming sound when you rotate it. Like the centrifugal force will make like a… Noise. Rasps, which are a bone, or which are like bone fragments, which when you rub them together or rub them on things, will make a *rasp noises* . Kind of like elementary school. 

Em: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim: You remember those in music class? And then there’s voices. Or maybe if you’re in a cave, the cave itself, the echoing. Some people even group percussion instruments in this, like drums. Usually, these drums would be made from guides.

Em: So how much evidence do we have of these instruments?

Tim: Not much. So most of these were made out of biological material, so we got to deal with the decay of them. Most of our surviving musical instruments from prehistory are made from bone, though. Obviously, that doesn’t mean that we didn’t use other materials. Historically, they just weathered away. Most common types of bones that we’d use, though, to produce these, were bones of bird wings, probably because they’re hollow. So they make a great flute. As I mentioned earlier, the Neanderthal flute, for instance, there were musical instruments made from cave bear bones, and then there were also instruments made out of ivory and terracotta.

Em: Wow, that is so neat. That instruments could be made out of such variety of groups of materials. And I really appreciate that a lot of it is from bones. Kill for food, but then you can use the bones for instruments. That’s so neat. I wonder what the craftsmanship that went into constructing these [was]. It’s incredible to think that something so intricate could be made with such limited resources and then get to use it to express yourself within your community. It’s pretty amazing.

 

Tim: Isn’t it? I think that’s great. I mean, music just really does play such an important role in community building. I mean, in that, of course, there’s spirituality, esotericism, and social stratification of any sort. Most early groups of people, at least that we can theorize about, were spiritually pagan, therein religious, so, of course, ritual is important in any instance of religious or spiritual practice. Now, given, Emily, this might be branching out a little bit from academia, but I think that’s what good research is about, is learning more from you’re a bit unfamiliar with. But I found this quote from a blog from this group in Manchester, England, called The Harth of Albion, and they’re a modern pagan group, and they talk about how music is used in their ceremonies to bring people together. I thought it was just really perfect for what we’re talking about. I just want to use it real quick. I’m just going to read through. “Using music within our rituals and workings can bring us together as a group, it can create harmony – or dischord – and can raise energy and align one another with intent … Music can also create an altered state of consciousness, through listening to it or through creating it for ourselves, it focusses us and brings us to an awareness of the moment that we are in. If we choose to learn to play for ourselves – whether something simple like a drum or a tin whistle or flute, or something more complex – then it is both creative and meditative at once – an exercise in mindfulness that puts us immediately in the present, allowing our focus to be brought to bear on whatever work it is that we seek to do”.

Em: Wow. I love that.

Tim: I love that, too. It’s so cool. It’s great.

Em: It’s amazing how music has this universal power to bring people together. I agree. Whether it’s a  traditional folk tune passed down through generations or a modern pop hit or even jazz, there’s something about music that really resonates with people from all walks of life. I wanted to discuss a few global sensations that have also been generational pass-downs and appreciations.

Tim: Yeah, I’m here for it, let’s do it, that sounds really cool.

Em: So, when we decided to discuss music, I really wanted to discuss ABBA and of course this band has a special place in my heart as I am half Swedish, and it was founded in Sweden. So, over five decades ago, Abba was formed in Sweden and yet today, you can almost guarantee that everyone you know has heard of “Dancing Queen” or “Mamma Mia”. Composed of two couples, Benny Anderson and Agnetha Fältskog (trying to get the perfect pronunciation from my mom), and then Anni-Frid Lyngstad (also known as Frida) and Björn Ulvaeus. And fun fact, Frida had lived in the same town as my mom!

Tim: What? Nice! That’s super cool.

Em: Yeah, it is kinda cool! Anyways, their big hit that started it all was actually “Waterloo” in 1974. So following this hit they went to Eurovision, and so not only did I grow up on their music, but so did my mom, and my grandparents. 

Tim: Wow, wow! That is so cool!

Em: It is. It’s really special, and so from weddings to bars to family gatherings, Abba is there. Not only is Abba one of the best bands but they are the songs behind the movie “Mamma Mia” and its sequel.

Tim: Right.

Em: This musical and movie adaptation lives free… rent free in my mind. It’s become an absolute. classic in my book.

Tim: Yeah, definitely.

Em: And “ABBA” is the acronym of all their names but it actually was a Swedish canned fish brand and they allowed them to take the name, because of how popular they became.

Tim: Oh, neat! And, y’know, just what you said about your mom and your grandma, it is so cool to see, like, in these five decades, this is one thing that is universal with you. Like you can relate with this with your grandma, you can sit down over a cup of tea and talk about ABBA with your grandma. Like, this is so cool. This is like, such a culture-builder for your family.

Em: It’s been awesome. And it’s very cool. And I wanted to talk about Taylor Swift as well.

Tim: Alright, let’s do it. 

Em: So, Taylor Swift means a lot to me, as a 21-year-old. She changed the music industry landscape, and some even claim, like as a fun little joke, that she is the music industry. So, since 2006, Taylor has been coming out with music of all genres. First on the scene she was singing country music and people told her she would never be able to sing other genres. But she’s done it – rock, folk, pop, indie, and in-between. Every album is special in its own way, they all sound different unlike other artists who are more pigeonholed into a certain genre. And actually, like I’ve said, she’s changed… changed kinda the whole landscape. She boosts the economy everywhere she goes- her tours are one of the most desired concerts and she has been on tour now for well over a year. I read this article: “So far, Swift has  generated $4.6 billion in consumer spending in the United States alone, and this number is expected to exceed $5 billion overall,”. Isn’t that insane?

Tim: Wow. Wow! That’s a lot of money.

Em: And this was an article done in, like, March, so it has probably gone even further. And it is nowhere near easy to attend these shows. Ticketmaster has been in lawsuits for over a year due to the system breaking down from so many people trying to get tickets. And it would just keep breaking down, and it was this big thing.

Tim: Wow, didn’t know that.

Em: So if you got your hands on tickets- you were extremely lucky, people even resold tickets for thousands of dollars… and people bought them. It’s crazy. After her American Eras Tour she went to Europe and many people from other places such as America flew to a place to get a ticket. So her music and tours have also boosted economies of cities all over the world. 

Tim: Wow, I- I’m still reeling from the Ticketmaster comment. I think it’s so fascinating the kind of complete fandom people can have, this complete loyalty – that they’ll do these things for what they’re passionate about, here of course being music, and music is just one unifying thing for all these people.

Em: Yeah! And of course, people listen to music everyday. But to be able to experience Taylor Swift, in one room, with everyone else who enjoys that? And we’ll talk a little more about that feeling later, but it’s a really awesome feeling that you almost can’t describe. But, I really want to focus on the bonds that Taylor has created. There’s this trend where you make friendship bracelets and at the concert you trade them with other Swifties which is like, the fan base name.

Tim: That’s nice.

Em: Yeah, so literally you just walk up to people and trade bracelets (and they become like peoples’ collectibles). Um, so like, before your concert you’re making like 30+ bracelets to give out to people, which is just so sweet. So, I have seen people collect the friendship bracelets and put then in a shadowbox for display, I have even seen people take the confetti from the end of the concert to save because this memory means that much to them. People also wear costume-esque clothing to the shows which makes it so fun. People recreate Taylor’s outfits or wear glitters or colors that match the theme of their favorite album. When I went to Taylor, I had never felt more happy and felt like, a safe environment. For the night I was at Gillette, it transformed into a fairytale, which is also a reference to “Today Was a Fairytale” by Taylor Swift. 

Tim: Y’know, that’s so cool that this quite literally is culture created by music, that this is like a people group created by one likened culture that is Taylor Swift, with a toolkit of sorts, that being the bracelets. It’s just so interesting that these people are relating to each other, um, and it’s just completely defined by music.

Em: Yeah, and typically when you go to a concert, there’s a certain type of person there, like, when you think of it, it is grouped by age. The audience at Bono is typically old, older, because that was from a long time ago and Gen Z and Gen Alpha don’t even know what, like who, Bono is. But Taylor has people of all ages, many influencers I follow bring their young kids. Emily Fauver brought her young daughter Ella to the Eras tour. It was a special moment for her to heal her inner child while also sharing this happiness with her daughter. Because she grew up listening, but couldn’t go, and it was just this really special moment. Similarly, a mom on Tiktok named Chelsea, she practically dedicated her account to, like, Taylor Swift, and she sings songs with her two young daughters, and makes dances with them, and they make crafts with Taylor Swift as the theme. And of course brought them to Taylor with her, um, and it was a really special moment for them. It’s really special seeing moms who are millennials who grew up on Taylor to still love her 18 years later and get to bring their children to these shows. People grow with her, which is really special, we don’t outgrow her. I listened to her when I was five in 2008 and in 2024, and I think that is true artistry.

 

Tim: That is amazing. And I keep saying it, but it’s true. That this power of music, y’know, this human universal as we had discussed, that it can bring people together and create this kinship out of thin air between people that maybe walk different lives. Different stages of life, different ages, different jobs, professions, passions, and just puts everyone into the same room for one second, just so they can share the same airwaves. That’s pretty incredible, isn’t it?

Em: And, Tim, it is so interesting because when I was touring my now house I saw Taylor Swift themed posters on the wall of one of my roommates and my friend and I thought “Oh, so we’ll probably get along”. Which is really interesting because it’s not like Taylor breeds fans of one type but it just kinda showed her character to me. Which may sound silly to some people, because it was, in the moment. Like she appreciates someone so much she has posters, and I do too. And it wasn’t even a poster of her face, and I could recognize it. It was like, this unspoken symbolism.

Tim: So interesting.

Em: Yeah. So, which is something we have in common, but it is a bond that we don’t even talk about. But it was still that initial thought I had, and it led true to me.

Tim: Yeah, so, y’know, I kinda wanted to say something, we kinda hinted at it earlier, but it’s this kinda sociological theory called “collective effervescence”. Um, it was coined by Émile Durkheim. According to Durkheim, collective effervescence may… a community or society may at times come together and simultaneously communicate the same thought and participate in the same action. Such an event then causes collective effervescence, which excites individuals and serves to unify the group, which I really think that live music, or being a fan of the same artist, or maybe everyone’s waiting for the same release, y’know, and everyone listens at the same time and is experiencing it together. It brings everyone closer together and I just think that’s really beautiful

Em: And I love that Tim, it is such a perfect way to describe concerts and musical connections. It reminds me of when I was in chorus in high school and we would all come together at the end of our concerts and sing a song even though we were in different classes and I guess ranked on our musicality and different ages- but it was truly so beautiful, hearing everyone come together.

Tim: Right, so, um, I guess I kinda wanted to, at the end of this, talk about what music meant to us, as people. Um, because we kinda started with prehistory, then went on to talk about a broader scheme of modern day, but I thought it might be cool, since we are a college-ran podcast, we are college students, to talk about what music means to us… so, Emily, what does music mean to you?

Em: So, Tim, thank you for asking that, uh, music means to me… so much more than I thought it did. When I really, like, look at this, it means so much more. Um, a few years ago, I practically dedicated all my money to go to concerts, and it was honestly one of my best years. And my best friend and I, our main thing together is that we always go to concerts.

Tim: Right.

Em: Um, and obviously, I talked about ABBA and Taylor Swift, and I love both of them so much, but I actually have a tattoo dedicated to one of Taylor Swift’s songs, which is “Mirrorball”. It means, like, broken pieces glued together to create something beautiful, like a disco ball, or what Taylor calls the mirrorball. So it’s about resilience and imperfection, which is just so beautiful to me. And clearly it meant so much that I got it tattooed on my body.

Tim: Of course.

Em: But what about you, Tim?

Tim: Um, I also have a few tattoos. I have a few. And most of them are actually music related, too.

Em: Oh, really?

Tim: Yeah, most of them are just records that I like that have just meant a lot to me over the years, um, or have made me feel a certain sort of way, and I just wanted to… have them on my body as a reminder of how they made me feel. Back home, most of my community, I’m an out of state student, I’m here at UMass now but I’m from Iowa City. Back home, most of my community, all of my closest friends, those people who I know had my back, I all met doing music. There’s a big music scene back where I’m from, and everyone’s in bands, everyone’s in each other’s bands, going to each other’s shows, and that’s how I met everybody! Playing in bands with my friends, going to shows, going to the same basement every weekend, getting sweaty with my buddies, and getting our ears blown out by music, and I really miss that. I wouldn’t trade the memories that I made with these people for the world. And music did that, y’know?

Em: It is so special. And even here, now at UMass, I go and try to see all the live bands, and it actually surprises me how much I really enjoy them, and seeing their joy when they perform on stage kinda translates to how I feel. Whether I like the type of music or not. It’s so cool. And I know we’ve talked about this a bit outside the podcast, but can you tell me a bit about how you were in bands?

Tim: I, I kinda just talked but I can go a bit more. Y’know, everyone was in bands, but that’s how I met my roommates, was by doing music back home. We were all in bands together and decided, y’know, let’s just live together and make music together. So we would do shows in our basements, um, and we’d go to shows in other people’s basements, and the sort of community that we built was amazing. And one thing I was meaning to say, that’s great, is I know that the music scene was such a great place for queer people. I knew that it was such a safe place for all of my queer friends to come out, I knew they would be accepted and be safe… because let’s face it, Iowa is a red state. Iowa City is safe, generally, but Iowa is a red state. Um, so these places were safe for my friends. They knew that they’d be okay there, and they knew that at the end of the day, if somebody fell, they would then get picked right back up. And they made these connections because of going to live shows and seeing each other.

Em: Yeah, and as a queer person, Tim, it’s really special. I’ve traveled quite a few hours to go to certain shows that are done by queer artists.

Tim: Right.

Em: And… just hearing about songs that talk about that experience are just really special. And I’m glad your friends back home have a space back home, because I know some people don’t have that. Anyways, do you want to wrap up?

Tim: Yeah, it does look like we’re running out of time here. Another thanks to our team members and our collaborators, especially our tech crew. To stay connected, you can find us on Instagram as @anthro.mp3. You can also find our sources, transcripts of each episode, and more in our AnthroHub show notes. I was one of your hosts today, Tim, joined by our other host…

Em: Emily.

Tim: And our lovely tech crew. If you enjoyed this episode, I think you’ll love our next one. You should. Keep an eye out on our Instagram for future updates on shows, specials, and events. Catch us next time, and have a great day, friends.

Em: Thank you, bye.

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